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marguerite_krux "I had to find you,
Tell you I need you,
Tell you I set you apart
Tell me your secrets,
And ask me your questions,
Aww let’s go back to the start..."
-Coldplay, 'The Scientist'
Random thoughts as I rewatch Rising:
I always think the start of SGA sucks. Who are those two randoms gazing at each other so intently and why do we care? Enough of doomed romances several million years ago already! [I just realized she might be the Ancient chick from an SG-1 ep, Frozen-?- but meh]
The first main character we see is Weir, so I kind of imprinted on her [much as ducklings are wont to do when they first hatch] as soon as she walked in. Doing the Pointless Accepting of Reports that Lisa Cuddy has also perfected in House. Seriously, she’s just turned up and this overzealous chick has a report waiting for her already.
Prescient, much…?...oh and HA, she signs it without looking and then ditches it on the table. Poor forgotten report, we hardly knew ye...
I know, I know, you’re wondering- why all this rambling? What relevance does it have to the ship? I’m getting to that:
Personally, I fall in love with strong-female-character first, then if she has chemistry with a gorgeous, charming, witty colleague, I ship them. The hero worship is born, then the shipping follows. ;) So the above was merely me setting the stage. And commenting on her crazy charisma. She just enters the room and everyone flocks to her!
And she captured my interest with the way she deflates McKay. Halfway into a rant about cute Scottish dude’s disliking for Ancient technology, all, ‘He’s not even trying, he wishes he never had the gene, oh god, why am I denied the glories of mutated DNA and this ungrateful voodoo worker is blessed with it?’ she just smirks and effectively shuts him up with the delightfully wry, ‘We could always test you a *third* time, Rodney.” Score!
[Btw, why the hell doesn’t she have the gene? If they weren’t going to have her go in the field and shoot guns, why not give her the gene so that she could defend the city? That would have been so cool, seeing her spin around in the chair, raising shields, activating devices and whatnot. Stupid writers. She definitely doesn’t have the gene, right? Hmph. I want a fic with her and some Ancient device, just for the heck of it.]
Grr, I can’t believe
But you know what I totally missed the first few times I rewatched this? Just as
Shep: I don't wanna be here...
Shep: Wait, whose lovely voice is this I hear?
And just in case I thought I was imagining it, as she walks past him, the other corner of his mouth quirks up even more for a fuller smile!
Cute, he's crushing on her already!
Then he proceeds to win my heart in the following exchange:
Sumner [dourly]: You remember who’s giving the orders.
Shep [smug]: That would be Doctor Weir, right?
HA! Defending her honor from the very first ep!
[Though as much as I ship Sparky, I still love the Weir/Sumner kiss outtake! I'd've hated it if it were for real, but it's just so funny!]
My favorite moment is when they've reached Atlantis, and
It’s like they formed a partnership from that
I like that she must have guessed Sumner wasn’t too keen on Shep, because of that black mark on his record and all, and that she forces Sumner to take Shep along. I mean, she told him to assemble a team, and he was walking away, using the- crap, I hate trying to describe these things, do you call it the radio, the comm…? Anyway, he obviously wasn’t taking Shep, so she has herself a power play in assigning Shep to the mission. And this leads to what is my equally most favorite moment in this ep [shut up, I can have two!] where he waves at her before going out the gate.
She looks so- like she's trying to be strong, but she's worrying about him already.
I never understood the reason behind the wave before, I loved it but I didn’t know why he was specifically acknowledging her, but I’m certain it’s because she gave him the opportunity to go out with the team. I’m noticing a lot of subtle undertones I totally missed before, now that I’m going through it again!
I think the real moment of power play that I jokingly referred to above actually came into play when Sumner eyes Shep with this look of muffled loathing, when Shep strolls up and joins the team nonchalantly, and Sumner then looks up at
Now I’m forwarding through most of the ep, mainly because I hate the overtness of the Sheyla intrusion. The whole necklace thing irritated me, because it’s so intimate and the music’s the fluting music that gives me ‘sheik-with-a-harem-woman’ vibes. He’s actually like, stroking her! *shudders* Fast forwarding again…mentally substituting
Okay, their first fight. *sighs* They haven’t even kissed yet and they’re on the verge of breaking up. I love how
Now I love Elizabeth with all my heart, but the way she was desperate for a gate address to dial to, then when Shep suggested Jinto could help, she made the condescending remark that ‘he’s just a child!’- it rubbed me the wrong way. [It’s funny that Torri believes Elizabeth would be good with children, display the same affection and nurturing she does with Sedge, when she has this disdainful attitude working here!] Even a kid is taught their name, phone number and home address, you know. And they need the help, it’s not time to point out his age. But Shep makes it all better, when Jinto introduces himself, he snarks, “Yeah, she’s pleased to meet you.” Score!
Damn Jinto. If that freakin’ kid hadn’t been there, Shep would’ve been the one to catch her instead of Ford. It could have been Aeryn and Crichton in Moya all over again! We could’ve had a snapshot of her in his arms in the opening credits the way Farscape did with J/A!
Ahh, the hawtness.
And Shep smiles at her. [I’m unreasonably fixated on his smiles. I guess because we don’t see him do it much for the rest of the show’s history.] I guess that fight is over!
I’d have to say the part where they discover the balcony is my second favorite moment. Second because they start fighting again, damn it. But the first few moments of wonder, when they’re enthralled by the view, where they ‘mirror’ [heavy-handed pun] each other’s movements- walking out onto the balcony in perfect sync with each other [even their steps are in time!], standing with their hands on the railing, looking down into the sea…pure gorgeousness.
I just wish we could’ve kept the bonding thing going on his part- the constant smiles in her direction, the shadowing her around the city, the shared body language. Once he threatened to undermine her authority, it changed things before they really had a chance to settle in place. Joe and Torri were totally setting up this ‘friendship’ vibe, and then the characters had to go and snipe at each other.
From reading her face accurately enough to gauge her thoughts, Shep makes the fatal error of completely messing up his pitch. ‘Elizabeth, come on, let me go on this half-assed rescue mission doomed to failure and lead the Wraith back to destroy the city because it’s the right thing to do…Why? Because- it- is!’ For a soldier, he has a poor grasp on tactics. Those guys are dead anyway, secure the safety of the people in the here and now instead of jeopardizing them needlessly! Dude! *shakes head*
Damn it, as she argues with him, blatantly attempting to manipulate him by calling him, ‘John’, he also sabotages the potential for first-name-gasms by stubbornly calling her ‘Doctor’. We got a looong way to go. [When was the first ep he called her ‘Elizabeth’ anyway?]
I really am frustrated with him for compromising the expedition’s safety by bringing back Random Dirty People who could possibly be snitches for the Wraith. He refuses to even concede Elizabeth’s point, which makes me want to cry. And he brutally shoots down her suggestion of negotiating with the nasty aliens. Which I could put down to his over-protectiveness of her and lack of desire to lose another commander, but…wishful thinking, much? Let me get away with that anyway. ;)
[OMG, I want the SGA book where Elizabeth negotiates with aliens. For once, someone recognizes her credentials!]
But at the end of the ep, Elizabeth comforts him [with words, not sex, as the ZPS recappers would wish] after he admits that he was wrong. Okay, he says he’s beginning to thinks she’s right, which isn’t an outright apology, but still a step on the right track. He’s dismantling walls between them, he can be himself around her instead of this perfect super-hero who never sets a foot wrong, he can admit a mistake with the security of knowing she’s not going to kick him while he’s down. It shows trust. It shows progress. And it makes me happy.
Unhappy Shep
Caring Elizabeth
And while he's not exactly beaming with joy, the tension is gone and he seems like he's considering her words, like he's working through forgiving himself sometime in the future.
And she's letting him know she's there for him. What a leader. I am impressed that she always knows the right thing to say to him. She does a great job of bolstering his self-confidence.
Then Teyla gatecrashes their little lovefest and ruins the moment by putting her hands on him, damn it. What was she doing, eavesdropping like that anyway? And she promises to make them more friends, but she should be sued for negligent misrepresentation because I see no evidence of new friends, and a whole heap of new enemies, thanks to her. *blows raspberry* The thing is, with her- I get ‘one-dimensional vibes of Sexy Alien Chick’ from her. Shep isn’t even interested, by the looks of him, which I adore, because he’s a one-woman man and totally picked Elizabeth FIRST, so Teyla can just go jump Ford.
Shep’s interaction with Elizabeth has more facets to explore, it’s more rounded, I can’t find the word to explain what I mean but Teyla’s coming off as the token hot girl that catches guys’ attention, whereas Elizabeth is the one that quietly but surely takes up a spot in your heart, blindsiding you all of a sudden when you realize how much you care about her. She’s the one he has real chemistry with- they lock eyes intently, they fight passionately, they make up and banter cutely…I just see so many more possibilities for expansion and depth in their relationship.
The ep ends with my equal second most favorite moment, where he and Elizabeth are leaning on the internal balcony together, chatting amiably. Ahhh, perfect. Everyone else has cleared off wisely, the scent of matchmaking in the air in the act of leaving them alone together. Hee! Damn cute couple they are, too.
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(no subject)
Date: 2007-10-31 03:05 am (UTC)Oh and the chick at the start of the ep? Yep, that was the girl from "Frozen" same actress, same character...they refer to it at some point, if not in the show, one of the behind-the-scenes featurettes or the 'Rising' commentary says that.
*loves sparky* you're right about the depth, there are so many levels of their relationship open for exploration...and i love the way they butt heads on occasion but seems to find away to either compromise or make up...having conflict and resolution in a relationship makes for a better, stronger bond. When have he and Teyla every outwardly faught?
Exactly. *loves sparky...again*
(no subject)
Date: 2007-10-31 03:23 am (UTC)Thanks for confirming the Frozen girl, I couldn't be bothered checking up on her, lol. Now thanks to you, I don't have to stir from my laziness!
I think the only time he and Teyla fought was in Letters from Pegasus, when she was all for saving as many villagers as she could with no regard for their safety and the possibility of compromising their position and killing everyone. I really liked his seething anger, because it made me think he'd taken in some of what Elizabeth said in Rising during the balcony scene about not going on 'half-assed rescue missions' and the possibility of just making things worse, and he was applying it now. Ha!
Btw, I'm a little confused by your page, lol. When I have time, I'm going through various posts on a few different journals, and you have links to speckle_dots and speckle_grafics and I was just wondering what that was about- so you post stuff specific to those 'communities' and then link it back to your main page? How does you make a community of one? And is it to make things more efficient so you don't clutter up your page?
EEEP- totally distracted by the lovely Lisa and Kathryn icons you have. What was I saying again? XP
(no subject)
Date: 2007-10-31 03:31 am (UTC)The city rising out of the water is what hooked me into the show. Then Elizabeth...but strangley enough, it was in fact the city first...don't tell Torri. lol.
Hmm, that was indeed a fight, but not a well grounded one. I more refer to those fights with Elizabeth where we, the audience, and both of them can see the relevant aspects of both arguments. He can see that she's right, but he's stubborn, she can see that he's right, but she stubborn and they can both see that they've both got a point. Teyla wasn't seeing his logic...at all. Oo, but you're right about him learning something from Elizabeth. I love in 'Common Ground' where he insists that Elizabeth won't trade him for Ladon, that's a beautiful understanding that he has of Elizabeth, really beautiful because he has taken the effort to learn how she functions, that she'll not negotiate with terrorists and that Koyla completely underestimated her strength and POWA! LOL. She's pretty in that ep too...but that's neither here nor there.
Oh, and yeah, because my journal is 'friends only', i post all of my graphics and fics to their own communities so that people can join if they like and they don't have to be on my flist. It's de-cluttering, yep.
Glad you like my icons! yay.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-10-31 12:13 pm (UTC)Halloween fic? For Sparky? Ooooh...ha, I have a million ideas for fic and can't find the time to pin them down. No idea why, it's not like I'm studying for my exams or anything. I keep coming HERE when I should be cramming, damn it.
CG was painful- and I hate that they couldn't give us a reunion scene. She'd've been expecting old-verge-of-dying Shep and then found him inexplicably young and attractive again! It could've been such a wonderful scene and they screwed us. *sniffles*
The line in CG where Kolya goes, 'You understimate the compassion of Dr Weir' and he goes, 'I think you underestimate Elizabeth' or something like that is awesome. He's doing the thing from Adrift where he insists he knows her better than anyone. [Which is easy enough when it's *Kolya*, but cooler when he's saying it to McKay]
Oh, and Elizabeth being pretty? Is always relevant. ;) I can't quite decide on a favorite look. One of these days I must cap a pic of every single one, lol.
I keep meaning to snurch your icons but I'm so busy online I never have time to use them yet- I WILL get to it after my exams...and credit, of course, it's not like I know how the heck to make them!
(no subject)
Date: 2007-10-31 05:55 pm (UTC)But before I jump into my own observations and thoughts on The Rising, I'd like to point out I remember several moments from S1 where Teyla and Shep clash heads.
First one was in "Suspicion" when he took Elizabeth's side (when she wanted to debrief all Athosians and Teyla wasn't allowed to command center). She was disappointed in him. Another conflict between them was i "Letter from Pegasus" when she insisted on saving her friend's family and he was thinking in a straight line, like a typical soldier. She was more than disappointed there and as much as I love Shep, I was mad at him there. Third occasion was in Siege 1, when Teyla and Bates clashed heads and Shep and Ford had to interfere to stop them from beating each other. oh I remember one more conflict - in The Gift, when Shep tells her she should talk to psychiatrist and she is offended.
Now let me compare these conflicts with sparky conflicts. The obvious thing I'm about to say is - they lack sparks! On the more serious note in three of these occasions Shep behaves like Teyla's commanding officer. When he fights with Elizabeth, he fights with someone who is at least equal to him and that is so much more interesting to look at.
And just as you said it B_P; Teyla is one -dimensional. That's my main problem with her - the character has potential but for some reason the writers settled for old cliche of warrior princess that's been done to death. I just don't find that interesting, I can't connect with a character like that.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-11-01 03:41 am (UTC)As for Letters from Pegasus, I'm not mad with Shep at all! I find that in these sorts of situations, since I'm not confronted with the decision personally, I can quite easily be callous and practical and scream at them to be smart and make the wise decision. Risking everyone's lives for random people and overcrowding the jumper and possibibly getting caught and fed upon is not something I'd think was the best course of action, you know? I can understand the agony that a compassionate person would be going through, but I wouldn't indulge it if it meant everyone else depending on you could die. So I can understand why you were mad at him for being a typical soldier, but I understand why it was necessary. [Although if I were there, under attack, I wouldn't be so accepting of him leaving me behind...]
Hee, I am going to enjoy discussion of Siege and The Gift later on- unlike on GW, we can actually freely discuss other ships and how the eps negatively affect them without being modded; I remember getting warned about mentioning Sheyla. *rolls eyes*
I completely agree with you, he treats her like a team member, someone whose welfare he's concerned about for the sake of their continued presence on the team. He can act like her friend on occasion, but...he really dressed her down for attacking Bates, that was 100% boss!Shep. It'd be interesting if Elizabeth flew off the handle at someone, but he definitely wouldn't be treating her like that.
Teyla is a little- disappointing. I wanted to connect with her- she's a main, she gets the majority of screentime and all, but I couldn't get any sense of real emotion from her. She gets angry, she gets sad, she smiles- it's more like 'emotion by numbers'.
Elizabeth, otoh, you can always sense something beneath the surface, you can study her behavior and try to figure out what's going on in her head, there's something deeper there that intrigues me. Teyla just doesn't grab me in that way.
I've said before that it's what *happens to* her that is interesting- like the Wraith DNA, or being kidnapped or whatever. Elizabeth is inherently interesting because of her *character*.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-11-01 07:03 am (UTC)I love your detailed responses. You always try to explain yourself and you do it so carefully - and I love it. Thank you.
Let's start with Teyla. You said it perfectly, she does emotions by the numbers. I remember first seeing the cave scene in The Rising. I was like 'ooookay, this is where director/writers are trying to tell me something. Why don't I buy it? Oh! She doesn't really like him.' I don't care how many references this bad joke for a ship gets. It doesn't work. Those two people don't have the necessary vibe to do it properly, period. They work okay as friends, and I even like when Teyla acts like Shep's big sister and tells him he'd done something wrong, like in HZ. But she is so much better with Ronon, there is a natural chemistry there - although I'm not much of Spanky shipper you can't deny they are cute. Heck even Teyla/Rodney is better than sheyla.
Yes I know the situation in Letter was risky, but I can't help myself. John was so stubborn there and I got that feeling he didn't even try to understand her. Gosh that ep is really bothering me. I think I'll rewatch it, because I have *cough*smut*cough* fic idea for it.
Suspicion. Don't forget about Athosians cultorological point of view. They don't understand behavior of expedition members because of their culture and the very way they look at the world. In their society things like friendship or keeping your word is a sacred thing (that's at least my opinion and my impression) and you can't really say that for our own culture. So I think it's still too early for them to understand us earthlings and the importance of Elizabeth's decisions. But don't get me wrong, Athosians annoy me to no end actually. The noble local culture of brave, proud and strong people has been done to death... *shakes head* I was happy when they left Atlantis.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-11-02 01:50 am (UTC)Hee, I don't ship Teyla but it's so screwed up how well she and Ronon work together, and that the writers decide to finally have a canon relationship and those two have found other partners! WTF? I feel sorry for all the Spankys and whatever Teyla/McKay was called. Even though Weir's exit sucked, at least the way in which it was done basically confirmed our ship. You may not agree with me, but if she had stayed on and they'd done a similar WTF with hooking her and some random up and getting the little lady pregnant, that would have killed the show for me just as effectively. I'm one of those people to whom a ship is life, unfortunately! I would've watched, but I wouldn't be as obsessive as I am right now, doing these analyses and all!
Back to your comment. The cave scene icked me out. It was pretty OOC for Shep, I think, to be hitting on her so blatantly. I mean, seriously- stroking some chick he'd just met? This doesn't make sense for me- this guy valiantly tried to resist the wiles of various Shep!groupies, including Teer, Neera and blonde chick in The Tower. I think he eventually succumbed to two of those women, but they pursued him, not the other way around. And especially considering that she's the leader of the people they're trying to create an alliance with...nope, not buying it. This is part of the 'characters serving the plot' that I detest so much.
I do like Teyla as a sister figure. I was so thrilled with her telling him off in HZ, that was a real 'sisterhood' thing to do. And sometimes she demonstrates a bit of sarcasm or she rolls her eyes at him- the way he kept increasing the number of kills he had in 'Sateda', for instance, because he couldn't handle she'd taken down more Wraith than him?
"Shep needs to reassert his manhood now that Teyla's much more macho than he is; he scrunches up his face all pouty-like and puffs out his chest, pffting that "it's nothing really. I only killed 11...12 Wraith." Teyla rolls her eyes, and omg, I LOVE HER IN THIS EPISODE, EVEN WITH ALL THE FREAKY, BRAIN-JARRING POD!TEYLA CONTRACTIONS! Definitely like siblings, with Teyla being the older, wiser sister. I'm convinced if he's not an only child, then Shep's definitely the baby of the family."
Ha!
I think I'll rewatch it, because I have *cough*smut*cough* fic idea for it.
HUH? LFP smut? I don't know how that's going to work, since Shep was with Teyla most of that ep, and you just got through saying Sheyla is a nothing more than pretentious forced chemistry, so...intriguing...
I had a look at Suspicion last night- I really don't like the way the writers don't let Elizabeth do her thing even when the stage is set perfectly for her to use her expertise. Teyla said 'You do not trust us?', because of the boundaries set for the Athosians, and instead of letting Elizabeth soothe her wounded pride, letting her use her diplomatic skills, they have Shep leaping in to smooth over the situation. Gah. I mean, it's great to see him using his brain, but still, it was Elizabeth's turn to speak and that ruined her moment. It's so irritating that they let the military guys practice negotiations, but won't let the professional do a damned thing.
I guess with what you were saying about their culture and the emphasis on 'your word is your oath' kind of thing, I get Teyla's attitude more. And also, in that view, it made more sense to have Shep, the one who originally asked her to join them, be the person to allay her fears. But you could see Elizabeth open her mouth to say something and he spoke over her, so that's my main quibble. It's back to what you said about him always having to be the one to fix the situation and solve everything. He doesn't disrespect her, he's just way too eager to deal with the problem himself and get it over with.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-11-02 08:19 pm (UTC)And yes - smut based on LFP. It happens after events of the episode ;) Just give me a day or two... :D
(no subject)
Date: 2007-11-03 02:56 am (UTC)LFP...*sighs* It always reminds me how much I hate Simon/Narim/whatever.
'coz I can, I shall quote my favorite piece of ZPS literature:
---------------
And just because it makes me feel better and more productive to rewrite the dialogue... Shep: "ZOMG, look at all the cool stuff my friends sent me!"
Laira-lite: "WE love you, too, dammit." Shep: "Er... yeah, whatever."
Laira-lite: "I've been stalking you. With my mind!"
Shep: "Er... new powers you didn't tell me about, h0r?"
Laira-lite: "Yes. Fear me."
Shep then makes the Eww Face, which KILLS me because seriously, Laira-lite needs to GET A CLUE. Upset that he's not that impressed by her Special Powers of Fangirlness, she adds, "I've been stalking you EVERYWHERE." Shep: "Dammit, why didn't you tell me. I needed a GPS unit out there!"
And then Laira-lite keeps talking. And Shep keeps checking out all the MREs because those are infinitely more interesting than Laira-lite.
Laira-lite, feeling ignored: "Sit with me."
Shep: "But... but... but... shiny Powerbars! Cool MREs! STUFF!"
Pooh: "LMFAO."
Shep eventually sits, but he just spent a whole day running, so he was exhausted, not because of anything Laira-lite said. *LALALA*
Then Laira-lite refuses to shut up, all "Ever since I was a wee babe, I knew I loved you before I met you/I think I dreamed you into life/I knew I loved you before I met you/I have been waiting all my life." God, don't think I don't want to punch Laira-lite in the head for making me quote Savage Garden.
Shep, thank god, looks sufficiently disturbed. Because seriously, who wants to be told that some girl saw your face in her vision when she was a little kid and knew she was going to have The Hot Sex with you? That's disgusting.
Laira-lite: "You are the One, Neo. I have spent my entire life looking for you." Then Neo Shep, who still looks pretty damn freaked, is all, "One what?"
Laira-lite: "Our Ascension Team Leader, duh." And then Shep says some things that make me CRY but because he's so pretty, I'll let it go. Besides, he's a hopeless romantic and if some h0r insinuated that you would be Her Fated One, you'd flail and eww a bit, but ultimately, you'd grab at the chance. Wouldn't you? Hell, if some guy came up to me and told me he's known without a doubt that I'd be his One, after I beat the crap out of him for being a sick pervert, my final thought would be 'Cool. I'm so lazy, now I don't actually have to LOOK for a guy myself.' But that could just be me.
Anyway, Laira-lite smiles, all pleased with this, and tells him that he's her density and her one and only lobster and... oh, whatever, I HATE THIS SCENE and this whole crapisode.
There's more talking, of which the only important thing to note is that Shep pretty much ix-nays the idea of him, you know, dying with these Stupid Hippies. God, this man's eyes are gorgeous. So I can't begrudge Laira-lite when she jumps him. Okay, I can, but I understand it at least. Also, I'm clinging to the fact that not only has Shep not considered her in that way for MONTHS, she still needed to drop a huge f**king anvil over his head and make the first move before he actually responded. And then Shep does that Face-Holding thing that makes me weak in the knees, and... thank god we don't get to see anything else so I can keep convincing myself that after a 10 hour run and being gone all day, he was way too tired to do anything more than a quick Alien-Earth cultural exchange of spit. So there.
-----------------------
Hee, I LOVE THIS RECAP *dies laughing*
(no subject)
Date: 2007-11-03 07:16 am (UTC)Huh you asked me about Elizabeth near railing scene in Evenescence vid. That one is from Conversion I think, and I'm pretty sure there are two more similar to that one - one is in "Sanctuary", just after John flies his jumper through the gate near the end of the episode. That scene is the only good scene there.
Other one is in "Coup d'etat" but I don't exactly remember where, so you'll have to look for it a bit.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-11-02 01:53 am (UTC)I don't know what this says about me [I'm afraid, lol] but I couldn't stand the Jaffa and same thing with the Athosians. I could never see the point in their presence. Stupid Jinto, messing around with Ancient devices and releasing energy-devouring entities that could've killed them all. Argh. I was happy as well when they left! I think it's again the way that the writers portray them- I've been hanging out for allies that won't screw the expedition over,because it is such a tired old ploy and not really a 'twist' anymore, yet I'm disdainful of the Athosians, who have proven the most loyal to them. Huh. They never seem to be of any use. Sure, they provide crops [and alien booze that results in Lizzie and Shep sleeping together or getting married in fics] but we don't *see* the impact of that arrangement. It's not like they're providing technology, or going out on missions with them or doing anything constructive to fight the Wraith. The only time they turn up is to cause problems, it seems. And I'm going to sound so intolerant, but their beliefs irritate me. It's more the way they expect the expedition to abide by them, the way Halling in particular wants to impose their own religion and rules upon the newcomers. The whole thing about 'Ancestors, if we have displeased you, we will leave'- what, he's going to make Elizabeth and the others pack up and go? He can take his people, but he can't make promises for hers. He may not actually *mean* the expedition, but it came off that way. And he brought up that whole religious thing again in another ep, where he said they should abandon the city and the Ancestors would have a plan to save it should it be their will, blah blah. I'm of the 'make your own destiny' mind, so the fact that he's saying to someone who doesn't believe like he does that she should 'run away, and the Ancients will make it all better, but if they don't turn up and the Wraith eat us all, well, that was our destiny, so meh'. Whatever.
Anyway, I'm straying into a whole other ep/analysis here, so I'll zip it on that note!
(no subject)
Date: 2007-10-31 06:40 pm (UTC)I love your observations and your sense for details. You noticed so many things! Great!
When I saw Elizabeth walking in - that first scene in the base - I was instantly drawn to her. Here comes the queen, I thought. My respect only grew when I saw how she handled Rodney - I "knew" him from SG - 1 and I remember what was he like around Carter. He is totally different around Elizabeth - one stare from her and Rodney is quiet. That makes me respect her even more!
ATA gene. I'm glad that Elizabeth doesn't have it. Why? I see her as peace maker and that chair thing is used to make war. I prefer her diplomatic abilities, her words are stronger than swords (or guns, or drone firing chairs) and I think the writers should have focused more on that. I watched The Eye yesterday and there were so many moments where she kept cool head and the situation was worse than desperate. It's beyond me why some people don't recognize that as an amazing quality. I don't think Elizabeth needs to be "improved" with some special abilities like it was done in S4. That's not what she is. Can you tell I'm a pacifist?
This episode outlines Sparky relationship. It's not easy, it's not a smooth ride, it's challenging; but what I love about them is the fact that they are equals. I love that first fight, because it shows both of them have their hearts in the same place, but simply think in different ways. And the whole season one is about them learning to understand each other better. There is this balcony fight where both see each other's points, but just as speckleberry said, refuse to give in because they are stubborn. There is that moment in Hot Zone when Sheppard undermines her authority - because he thinks he knows better. He is stubborn and really bad at waiting and has this urge to fix situations *himself*. He is desperate when he depends on someone else to do it (think TRW).
And then there is Siege 2 and that new @sshole colonel and that moment when Sheppard insists Elizabeth is present at tactical meeting and informed about the plan. I love how he stands up for her there.
And last, but not the least, Elizabeth is maybe first person in a very long time who gave John a second chance - to prove how much he is worth. She definitely changed his life by insisting on his abilities and good sides, and not only "black marks". She looks for the best in people and in case of John Sheppard she found a real gem.
Phew! There you go!
(no subject)
Date: 2007-11-01 04:05 am (UTC)Ha, that was all due to you, I spent a whole evening analyzing this ep after I saw you'd posted an entry on it. Then the damn message kept popping up that my reply was too long, so I figured I may as well just post some of the more rambling bits here [I love rambling!] and have some of the actual *analysis* for your page.
Interesting thoughts about McKay's reaction to her. I wonder if the writers were just toning him down for SGA, whether it might have been more a ploy to make him *likeable* rather than just Elizabeth's influence? But I definitely agree that she's had a knack handling him. He tends to whinge about everyone, but he doesn't disrespect her!
And I appreciate your thoughts on the ATA gene. It's good to have a different perspective. I know the chair is used to make war, I suppose I was just concentrating more on the defensive capabilities, but obviously if they're in battle, they're not going to be happy with Elizabeth just raising shields and insisting she won't fire the drones, huh? Damn. Ah well. It was more that I wanted her included in the action in some way- scenes where she's just wandering around really bother me, that they won't give her anything to do. Shep's flying the city, McKay's doing tech-y stuff, and she's in front of windows risking her life. *scowls* I just think it would have been cool that she has such a bond with the city, if it could've been a physical thing through the gene as well, you know? I read this awesome fic Salvation by Irony_Rocks a while back, that was never finished, where Elizabeth gained power over the city and it just enthralled me.
This relates to the dynamics with Teyla- I was struggling to pin down what it was, but he doesn't treat her like another leader. Even though she is technically an Athosian leader, that never was obvious in her character [and what happened to the Athosians anyway? They weren't stranded on Lantia after Adrift, were they?] With Elizabeth, you can't forget it. They are on a more equal level, even if Shep overrules her with his military authority, there are consequences within their relationship. If Shep overrules Teyla, I don't get that feeling at all, nothing changes with them. She can't do anything to him, and I don't get the feeling that he feels guilty for making a decision that she doesn't agree with, whereas in eps like Hot Zone and First Strike, I did get the sense that Shep felt guilty afterward for overruling Elizabeth. And as you pointed out, he stood up for her authority in Siege II! That colonel was a wacko- takes her city from her without warning, and then hits on her for the entire ep! I mean, he kept sleazing on about 'I owe you a drink...let's get a drink after all this...' Loser! [Though I did feel sorry for him at the end, damn it]
I was wondering something random that has nothing to do with Rising- but Elizabeth and Carter had a fight over something, I think it was to do with reviving O'Neill after he saved the planet at the Antarctic outpost. Elizabeth refused to risk it and Carter got in her face about it. Then Shep asks Carter to let them go on a rescue mission for Elizabeth and Carter refuses [this is what I've heard, I haven't bothered to watch it]. Inconsistent, much? Some people compared that scene with Rising, because Shep was appealing to Carter to save Elizabeth in a similar way that he appealed to Elizabeth to save Sumner. But Elizabeth listened to him, made her decision and stuck by it. Then when he came up with a good reason to let him go, by discovering the cloaking ability of the jumpers, she revised her opinion and authorized it. That's the big difference in leadership dynamics. Elizabeth is humble, she doesn't have a huge ego that needs stroking- if she's said something previously, but something changes and it's no longer relevant, she can change her mind without making a fuss about it, without getting angry about being proven wrong or something. She can make the best decision for her people without bringing personal issues into it, and I love that about her. Those military jerks that are always clashing with her need to learn how to do that.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-11-01 07:24 am (UTC)Plus, Elizabeth is a woman. And this is still MANkind. And yes, I am a feminist. But most of people cringe at the concept of female leadership, because in their minds, women were meant to stay home, cook and have kids. *shakes head*
About Carter's decision... I don't peg that down to her - but if I did, I'd say it's inconsistent in a way. I peg that down to writers and producers. It's their decision, not Carter's. Those guys are slowly ruining all of their characters by trying to build a Frankenstein.
They had something that worked perfectly, but now for some stupid reason the show needs "cool" additions. It won't work. The problem with continuity isn't the fact that they forget things that happened in previous episodes, the real problem is that it will feel they are doing completely different show. Cast and character names are borrowed and I guess everything is tailored to fit SG - 1 formula, because they think "reviving" SG -1 in this way will attract viewers... i think they are mistaken.
And again, I don't think Elizabeth is just standing and doing nothing when hell breaks loose. She is the leader. She makes decisions, and her task is the hardest. At the end of the day everything that happened is *her* responsibility. Everything is on her shoulders. She was the one who had to send Sheppard on suicide mission and if that worked out as planned - she would be the one to live with that decision for the rest of her life. But again - it's our culture - most of viewers value action figure types and Teyla comes across better because she can fight those damn sticks, than Elizabeth who is intelligent and caring and more interesting than Teyla. Elizabeth isn't an action figure, and that's why she was ditched from the show. I guess that is my main problem with new season, along with screwing up my fav ship.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-11-02 12:40 pm (UTC)Ha, I think the writers and producers are the problem- they're all men. Okay, Carl Binder I have a soft spot for- and JF said that was his favorite writer, so cool! But I think they're afraid of trying to handle such a unique voice in sci-fi. Elizabeth interested me because she was different, because she was outside the military/scientist dichotomy [though I admit, at first I did wish she was more science-oriented, just so that she could join in on those discussions and stuff. Deciphering Ancient doesn't get her out enough!]
The thing is, they found a way to make Vala work, and she's not military/science and I wonder half the time why the heck she's there, because it seems she just provides the quick wit and fun banter! [But I love her for it]
It's rather sad that people are threatened by women in power. They come up with the dumbest rationalizations- some people said that because Julia Gillard, in our politics, doesn't have children, she's not fit to lead the country and make policies for women. Uh, well, John Howard is male, so he can't be PM because he's not fit to make policies for half the population, he can't represent the female interest! Morons. In SGA, I get the feeling that it's okay for Elizabeth to be in charge when they're doing reports and boring stuff like that, but as soon as there are negotiations or battles or something happens, everyone else supersedes her. [I still can't get over BATES negotiating for food in Underground. Bates, instead of Elizabeth, where'd that brilliant idea spring from? It was a simple reference, not an actual scene, but they couldn't let Elizabeth take credit for it. *bashes wall*]
The few people I know who watch the show aren't big fans of Elizabeth either, except for my darling cousin who I brainwashed into obsession. ;) She now screams and rants at the screen whenever some injustice occurs to Elizabeth. Hee! I am *good*...
I don't even understand how our society became patriarchal. Women have children. Women nurture. Huh. Well, in nature, don't penguins leave the nurturing to the men? Nice division of labor- females produce offspring, males then do their part by looking after the egg. They're civilized! [Note: I know nothing about nature. This is a fragment of memory I pulled out at random from the brain vault]
I hate Darwin's theory. It was based on the notion that 'success', in biological terms, means reproduction, the more offspring=greater success. I'm a miserable failure as a female, lol. Can't cook, don't want kids... XP
"I peg that down to writers and producers. It's their decision, not Carter's. Those guys are slowly ruining all of their characters by trying to build a Frankenstein."
They're trying to make Carter the perfect being, without actually ascending. Soldier, scientist, leader, blah blah blah. She can do everything, the one-woman team! It's almost insulting, like in order to be a success, she has to be good at everything, whereas the men can pick one field to be good at and suck in other areas and be well-rounded characters for all that. They can be human and have flaws and be relatable. She has to be near-divine. You know, Cam called her 'Mary Poppins' once, and now I get it. Her only vice that kept her from being perfect was vanity, wasn't it? That's why I'm annoyed with Carter- she was so much cooler when she had self-doubts, when she was unsure of herself, when she compensated for her lack of confidence by making bold outrageous wacky funny comments about sex organs and GI Joe dolls. Pilot!Carter was awesome. Too bad they toned her down to generic, repressed, soulless Carter later on.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-11-02 12:41 pm (UTC)I'm curious- would you want Elizabeth back in any capacity, just to have her onscreen again? [however unlikely it is] Or would the idea of the changes to her character put you off? A lot of people have said that now she's got nanites, she can join the team and go on missions, she's like Bionic Woman, she's invincible. [Can she bleed? Does she heal instantly?]
Not that I believe the writers would bother to revisit her, let alone empower her to that degree. But I'm still interested if you have terms for her return, or if you'd just be happy whatever happens?
"But again - it's our culture - most of viewers value action figure types and Teyla comes across better because she can fight those damn sticks, than Elizabeth who is intelligent and caring and more interesting than Teyla."
Teyla's a moron. Suspicion. She fires her gun and walks straight to the Wraith. It's not backing down. She keeps walking to it and firing. It's still coming for her. Eventually, she walks right into its arms and it whacks her a few feet into the air and reacquaints her with the ground. I just- *cringe*. And I never buy that those sticks realistically protect her.
I love how Joe was saying kung-fu was for Jason and Rachel, and he mimed these little karate movements. Then he was like, 'I'm more the Harrison Ford type' and he pretends to pull out a gun, 'BLAM. It's much simpler'. Hee!